Hind Frata on successfully navigating a corporate & entrepreneurial career with purpose

Speaker 1: 0:04

Uncertainty is part of entrepreneurship, adapting it and being extremely flowing and resilient with the market, because the market is evolving a lot. It's about how to stay positioned in a chaotic job market with so many technological disruptions, which is completely different, and you have to adapt the product and the approach continuously. You need to be very flexible in the value proposition you bring and very flexible on the approach and very close to the market, listening a lot to what's needed there.

Speaker 2: 0:35

Hi and thank you for giving your time to Unlimited Seating. I'm your host, sanila Samuel. Through these conversations, unlimited Seating aims to inspire, educate and build a community that promotes and celebrates inclusion and diversity in a world where female leaders are still an exception and not the norm. Hey, hi, everybody, and welcome to another season and another episode of Unlimited Seating. I'm very happy to be kicking off season four with my guest for today Hint Fratha. Hint is an international executive, career advisor and corporate coach, having spent over 18 years in the marketing and branding space with multinational corporations based in Paris, zurich and Barcelona in the FMCG and luxury retail sectors. Hint, thank you so much for agreeing to be a guest on Unlimited Seating and thank you for taking the time out to be with us today.

Speaker 1: 1:39

Thank you very much, Sanila, for receiving me.

Speaker 2: 1:42

Hey, I'm looking forward to our conversation today and just learning more about your journey, which is really exciting. So I'm going to get us started here, hint, if that's okay with you. Sure, a great journey in the marketing and branding space and in different countries and cities. But I want to take you back to the start. Can you share with us a bit about before you embarked on this exciting journey? Growing up, what was it like, who are your role models and how did you decide this is where you want to start your career? I would love to know more.

Speaker 1: 2:21

Okay, big questions. I'm going to start from the beginning. So I grew up. I was born in Casablanca, morocco, and I grew up in Morocco in 2018. Morocco is a culture that shaped me a lot, because it's a culture with strong values of community sharing, generosity and, I would say also resilience, because I learned, I would say, very early to move outside of my comfort zone and I also learned to fight for my dreams as a little girl. So, I would say, in terms of role model, my dad has been definitely a role model for me. He's a very open person, he's very curious, he's a traveler lover and I think he's been always like a hunger of learning, meeting new cultures, and I think he's been contagious for me on this aspect, because I see a lot of me in this aspect and I think that since very young, I inherited this strong curiosity, this openness and this sensitivity for everything related to human. I would say I've always been fascinated by people's details, like always observing what creates impacts. You know people's wise, trying always to observe people's behaviors. So it's something that I would definitely define me and, of course, I nourished it over time with my own interests through traveling, reading, living in international environments has shaped me a lot. I've been living outside of Morocco for more than 25 years now and I always still love to get in touch with people from different cultures and different backgrounds. I'm very passionate about the differences, so I really, I would say, fall in love with everything that is different, because for me this is something new, you know, in front of me, and I always try to bring it up and create something out of it. And this is what I'm doing actually in executive coaching today trying really to make people connect with their difference, probably because I am different. You know, I'm coming from this place of difference and I've been lucky somehow because my dad always empowered me, telling me that what will make me be successful in life is to really embrace my difference and make it big, but not like following other's dreams or but really embracing that difference, and I think that's something that's a huge advice, because that helped me to overcome, you know, and always stay loyal to myself and who I am, and without you know, dubs on identity stuff or so having clarity on who you are and really embracing who you are with all this difference, which what for me is also exciting when I see it in other people, you know, like you or like in, probably we're not here by chance, you know, but probably we have. So such a multicultural and open background I love that.

Speaker 2: 5:15

I think it is just. It is such a great message to hear in growing up right, I think many of us only as we grow much older we say, ok, you know what I'm going to accept, I'm not going to keep changing just to fit in. So that's such a great message to grow up with. So kudos to your dad and such a great role model to have. And I think that's probably also made you really open to learning, like you said, to understanding other people as well. The schooling and then university or higher education. How did you make those decisions and those choices that set you on the path I have?

Speaker 1: 5:49

a. It's funny because I had this conversation very recently with some friends that made university choices based on parents choices. In my case it's been different because my parents always ask me open questions about what are my interests, what do I love the most? Where do I feel more powerful with strengths? And actually I've been able since my 12th 13th to really choose at school the right path. So I choose mathematics and economics, which are like my two specialties, to incorporate university later on and study business academics. I also choose the kind of school I wanted to go to I so I started the university in France in a very small city because I went with my best friend. I didn't want to be in a big city for the first two years of my university grades because I didn't want to be disturbed. It was a lot already to move from Morocco to France. In terms of change, and that's something that has always been part of my journey I always I've always been naturally aware of how to transition softly, like how to prepare transitions, and it's something I always recommend not to make changes so radical that you feel completely overwhelmed, but try to make it challenging but at the same time, make it soft. This balance is very important. We all have dreams and challenges and ambitious objectives, but if you don't do it your way, you can get driven hard very fast. So, and in a world that is moving so fast, it's even more important today to really stop and think. How do you want to do it? The how you want to do it is very important, much more than what do you want to do. How do you want to do it? Because this will determine the journey. This will determine your success, your footprint and your self satisfaction, because if you do it the hard way, it could be kind of trauma.

Speaker 2: 7:53

I think that's a really good point. Right how you want to do it, and I love what you said about making transitions. Make it challenging. It's not like you just stay in your comfort zone, but doing things at your own pace. Maybe some people are okay to change everything in one go, though I think that would be really hard. Take it at your own pace and sometimes, of course, your family with you as well. Right, making the changes that work for everybody in a way that works for everybody. I really like that message, and it's hard to be that deliberate and logical about it at such a young age, but I think you really thought about it. It's good that you obviously went with your friend as well, but it's a very sensible decision to make.

Speaker 1: 8:36

Yeah, probably it's easier for me to mention it today, after many years, than in the moment. But over time you also get aware about what was natural, what was intuitive. At the same time, most of the time when we're young, we do maybe intuitive stuff and it's unconscious, we're not aware really of it, we just do it. But then over time it can confirm if this was right or wrong and, in my case, really following my intuition and making it my way, respecting my rhythm, respecting my own needs, setting the limits. You know, that is what I call respect Respecting oneself to be able to respect others. Because if we don't respect our needs and our rhythm, we will not be able to do it with others. So it always starts from within.

Speaker 2: 9:24

So you went to university, studied economics, maths and business. You were in the corporate space for many years. Can you share a bit about how you got into that space? How did the journey go?

Speaker 1: 9:37

So basically, I built my career in marketing over more than 18 years and I reached a VP marketing position for the last 10 years. I loved my career in corporate because I've always been passionate about marketing and it's very funny because my passion started very early. I was a teenager. I remember I was traveling quite a lot with my parents outside Morocco and each time I was going to Europe I was spending hours in supermarkets, observed the new products, the new recipes, the packaging, the designs. I was fascinated by that because I didn't have that in my country, which was much more limited at the time when I was a teenager and I always tried to understand why food was so different from country to country. There was a kind of fascination of how food can help you access to the culture. So probably this is why I was spending so much time in supermarket. And actually later on, when I started studying business in France in my first marketing course I remember it was I really felt in love with marketing. It was like this is exactly what I'm going to do. Before that I was appreciating designs and products and innovation, but I was not. I couldn't put your word on it, but in that classroom it was this is what I want to do, so I have full clarity on it and I would say that I'm still passionate about marketing till today. It's a very complete journey where you have a very good balance between analytics, business analytics, understanding of consumers, creativity. I feel really marketing is in the heart of every organization and no business can evolve without marketing. I feel it has been in the heart and I love that because I really I've been able to learn a lot, not only from marketing but also from other areas, and which opens learning and growing, and this is always what I'm looking for not being limited, but expanding connection with people, expanding knowledge, expanding learning. And I believe that what helped me grow in senior marketing positions this passion, because I really feel that it was strongly contagious. I always transmitted this passion for what I was doing and I think another driver for success has been my international and matricultural mindsets. I think I made the right choice by building my career in the kind of environment that was fitting my personality. Again, I was not able to phrase it like this at that time. But I was listening to my deep call that I was really feeling comfortable within international environments with diversity of people from different backgrounds, different countries and always learning from them. I always had this mentality that I want to deliver but I also want to learn and receive. I think that's very important. Otherwise, if you just give back, you just serve and you don't receive, you don't get nourished back.

Speaker 2: 12:37

Right.

Speaker 1: 12:38

It creates frustration because it's not win-win. I would say my passion for marketing and my international and matricultural mindset helped me a lot throughout my career and still helping me today, because it's loyal to who I am. It's not that I have to fit in or adapt myself or wear masks, it's really me, it's natural. They are key drivers of my personality.

Speaker 2: 13:03

I love that. What I'm hearing is that you're going to start to what you enjoyed and I think you said that from early on right the whole thing about embracing differences. You took that into your career as well, I think. Just the interest to learn about people, about products, all of that. I think that's what has stayed with you throughout your career. So I just want to stay for some time on the growth that you had, right Different roles, different organizations, different cities and you grew to be VP of marketing in the organization. You stayed there in that position for some time. So, from an organizational standpoint, Hind, what advice would you specifically give for someone who's starting out and who wants to get to where you were able to get to in the marketing space?

Speaker 1: 13:53

I would say today, because the market, also the job market, has changed a lot, you know, since 20 years. But I would say, for me, the first step is always having clarity on your career vision. So, like, what is your five years, 10 years dream in your career? That's very important because this is the final destination somehow. Then you just need to take the right roads to get there. So setting your destination even if it's not perfect, but somehow defining what's your destination in your career is very important. And then what's the roads to take? Very important to define with clarity which kind of working environment you want to evolve in. So that's really something very important being in an environment that will help you grow. Not only that you're going to be delivering, but also you're going to be receiving back, and today learning in terms of skills is so important and will be needed very regularly. Your employability will really depend a lot on the environment and the related skills. So really being very mindful about environment and related skills and then really choose corporations that are caring about their people, because you can't do this journey and enjoy the journey if you don't have corporate cultures and leaders that are taking care of people. So being mindful also about what are the values of this organization and do they match your values. So those three pillars I would say the working environment, the skills you're going to learn to stay growing in your journey till you reach your objectives, final destination, and being in an environment that takes care of your core values as an individual.

Speaker 2: 15:43

I love that. I think all very important and then tied into what you said at the start in terms of having an idea maybe not like an inflexible idea, but having a vision of where you want to get to. So I really like how you put all of those together and that's really good advice for somebody not just starting out but just even who are, say, midway as well. So I'm going to take you then to you kind of leaving the corporate world behind and starting out starting something different on your own. How did that come about and what has been the experience so far? The good, maybe not so good.

Speaker 1: 16:22

So, yeah, I started my company in March 2020 with the beginning of the pandemic and the lockdown, and, in my case, the pandemic has been an activator, a positive activator. I remember I was really very high energy during the lockdown because I took a very strong decision at that moment, which is to resign from corporate, from a last job, and go for one of my dreams that I had at that time in beginning 2020. It was planned to be for five or six years later, okay, when my son would go to university. That was like my plan. I had it as a vision, but it was not so early. So what happens actually is that before the pandemic, coaching was very local and limited to the city where you live and to the people that are living in the city. For me, it was too small. That was one of the reasons I didn't take this path before. And what happens to me is that when I saw the lockdown, I immediately saw that no borders anymore, because if you speak languages, today I'm speaking four languages. So immediately I told myself the first insight is that everyone would move online, but it's a way of a few teachers, as you can see. Okay, okay, I make that then. So the two 闪退감을. I make that in that manner. I live in that self vyohara area as well as in those areas of stress society where no more borders, so the working space is suddenly opened and became big for everybody actually for everybody, not only for me. That was like the first vision I had, and the second insight I had was I don't wanna live this life without doing really what I love. I don't know what I'm passionate about, because in that moment there was no vaccine, we had no visibility about the end of the lockdown and I remember I was very conscious about life can end because of the COVID or because of something else. So I wanna do and I'm not gonna wait more and I just did it and I feel I'm ready because I was certified in coaching since 2017. I was certified in leadership since 2018 and 19. So I had everything. I was ready. I was just missing this like push. So we have moments in life where there's a message for us that is telling us go for it. Either you listen to it, either you don't listen to it and you're following the same path. In my case, I followed it and it's been a great choice, definitely because I listened. It was completely aligned with what I was looking for. I deeply enjoyed my 20 years corporate experience, but at the last years of my corporate I was really enjoying more the team management part, the human part, the impact part. So I wanted to pivot into a professional project that would help me capitalize, would allow me to capitalize on everything I learned and, at the same time, creating more impacts and being much more human centered, which is what I'm doing today, for corporations and for individuals, for executives. So it's been also very clear, conscious, aligned with who I am and what I wanted.

Speaker 2: 19:26

Yeah, so very brave decision. Leaving the steady every month, you know you're getting paid in the corporate world and then you decide to start out on your own. Of course, like you said, it's been a journey over a few years, not an overnight decision that you made. What are some of the tougher points of starting out on your own right? The tougher aspects and the challenging aspects and what I always like to learn from my guests are what is like maybe a setback that you had professionally, and how did you get over that?

Speaker 1: 20:02

Okay, so I'm gonna be answering about the challenging aspects. The first thing that I did when I started like designing and defining what would be shipped together my company of executive career coaching and corporate leadership trainings was to set commitments with myself, like this new project I created from scratch, I created for me and I'm fully accountable for it. So I really listed what I needed. So the commitment with myself so I remember one of them was I want to practice all my languages. So this is a commitment. I can't lose my languages. It's so important for me. I wanna work with people diversity of people from different countries, gender-wise, all kinds of aspects. And I gave myself two years. I said to myself because I'm very realistic, you know, when you start something, you have no clue if it's gonna work or not. So I said to myself okay, I'm not giving myself one year because I feel it's too short, starting from zero at the beginning of the pandemic, where no idea of how things will evolve at that moment. So I told myself realistically okay, I gave myself two years. This is the limit. So if it doesn't work, come back to corporate. So I was very aware and conscious. It was not unrealistic or like just dreaming and going for it. So I had this timing very clear and I created my business in a way that it matches my own ambition, my own family rhythm as well, which was important for me, still important for me, and also interacting with the people I want to interact with. So it's been very conscious, you know, in this aspect. That's the positive part. The challenging aspects have been that you have no visibility when you start. Yeah, so, except that I had this timeline of two years that I fixed to myself. I had no idea how many clients I will get the first month after six months, no idea. You have to trust. So you go through lots of setbacks emotional setbacks because before 2020, I was basically in a comfort zone, so I had a big salary for many years my life was very stable. I had control of many things in my life, I had a team working for me, so everything was easy. Even when you are incorporated you feel you're overwhelmed because you have lots of pressure, but actually it's easy in a way because everything is defined. You know like the pieces of the puzzles are very well set. It's very clear for everybody the safety net.

Speaker 2: 22:32

I feel right.

Speaker 1: 22:33

Yes, the rules of the game are very clear as well. Then you accept them or not, but they are clear. When you launch your own business, actually, what is positive? After 20 years of experience? That you know exactly what marketing is about, what sales is about, what the strategy is about. So you have, like the setup to build your business. So that was, in my case, definitely helping a lot, and still helping me today, because I could really understand the connection and how to bring it to my own business. But what was challenging is this uncertainty of I will be this year. I mean so what I did and what's helped me a lot to really navigate through this, those emotional setbacks, because I really call them emotional. So then they're not completely real. You know, I always like to say you have objective fears and you have subjective fears. Objective fears are based on realities. Like COVID is here, you can get sick. This is objective. Subjective fears is much more driven by an internal fear. That is not objective. So when you build your own business, you have lots of subjective fears that pop up.

Speaker 2: 23:44

Basically, so what I did?

Speaker 1: 23:46

was basically just setting objectives, being very disciplined and really seeding a lot and trusting that seeding so much and creating value content being very clear on my positioning will create impact. But I had to be resilient with when the when. This is why because I gave myself two years, which was realistic for my case it allowed me not, you know, after three months or six months to tell myself, hey, you still have one year and a half. And accepting that this new journey is, you have no visibility and you're gonna learn from this invisibility. That was like the kind of the first year, first year and a half, and after the second year I defined a way for me like to navigate these uncertainty, because it's part of the business and certainty is part of entrepreneurship, and that was that I make like an annual assessments and not so short term, you know, like looking at the big picture year one, year two, year three and revising the purpose of the company, the objectives of the company, adapting it and being extremely flowing and resilient with the market, because the market is evolving a lot. It's about how to stay positioned in a chaotic job market with so many technological disruptions, which is a completely different, and you have to adapt the product and the approach continuously. You need to be very flexible in the value proposition you bring and very flexible on the approach and very close to the market, listening a lot to what's needed there. You need to be very open-minded, very flexible. Those are the ingredients that still helping me, you know, to overcome those challenging setbacks. That, as I mentioned, has a lot to do with outside comfort zone, lack of visibility, because we were raised in a way to control our lives. So I had to de-program that and create a new program. You know, on the way I'm functioning today, I'm functioning very differently from before and I'm aware of it, and I had to, yeah, design it somehow because there's no guidance in this aspect.

Speaker 2: 26:11

I feel that, even that you know what you said at the start around managing transitions gradually. Right, you can see that that's a theme that you've carried here as well. Right, you took it piece by piece. They gave yourself that time and you say I like the word you used seeding right, doing the work every day and sticking to it, not getting impatient. Maybe at times you felt like stopping as well, but I think, because you said that a realistic timeline and milestones it enabled you to keep going.

Speaker 1: 26:45

Yeah, and something. Now that I'm listening to you, I think that I had very balanced to assess my business. So I have the business keep and beside that, I have also my personal keep eyes like enjoying the journey, creating impact, which for me, they matter a lot.

Speaker 2: 27:03

So being aware that in our career.

Speaker 1: 27:06

we cannot be only driven by business keep eyes. We need to be driven by purpose as well. We need to be driven by what makes our energy up, what makes us alive, what makes us joyful. And those keep eyes matter for me at least, what I learned in this journey as much as the other ones, and I would say even further if those personal keep eyes that provides you with joy, with fulfillment, with purpose, will have a direct positive impact into your business, because you will do it from a place of passion, of joy, and you will transmit it and people can feel it.

Speaker 2: 27:46

I agree. Yeah, I think that's a really good way and I think it just made me think of an action for myself, having the personal keep eyes in addition to the others financial and all of that.

Speaker 1: 27:56

Yeah, business and career keep eyes, because we just learn to have business and career keep eyes. We don't have personal keep eyes for myself first, like as a person which goes beyond our career or our titles or our status and my family keep eyes. There are many levels of keep eyes that are as important as the business or the career. If you are in a corporate career, for example.

Speaker 2: 28:24

Absolutely so. It's been three years then, more than three years actually, now that you've.

Speaker 1: 28:32

I go into the fourth year For the fourth anniversary next March.

Speaker 2: 28:37

Awesome. So how are you thinking of what's next for your business? Beautiful?

Speaker 1: 28:44

question because now I'm writing my perspectives, not my objectives for 2024. So for next year, I have my first TED talk that is planned for next June. I started writing my first book and I'm doing more and more conferences internationally. So this is like how my journey is evolving. In this moment I'm still enjoying doing executive career coaching and the corporate leadership trainings and now I want to share even more at a higher scale and through more international conferences, writing my book, creating also maybe a school of leadership. Some projects are like more advanced and some others are still dreams, because I like having dreams and every year I go for one big dream. So this is very important to me yeah, to keep dreaming. There's no age for dreaming and no limits.

Speaker 2: 29:42

Basically, I have to ask you. You said you speak four languages some guessing English, french, spanish, arabic, arabic. Wow, yes, that is really really cool. I always admire people who can speak multiple languages. It's a skill and a talent that, if you're using in the right way, is a real superpower, which I know you are.

Speaker 1: 30:10

Yeah, I always say that languages is the access to cultures and the way to create connections is through language. So if you speak more than one language, you can create more connections, more deep connections with people.

Speaker 2: 30:25

Really so. I asked this question to all my guests and you said you are writing a book as well. But if you have to summarize your journey to date, what would be a book title or theme song that you would pick?

Speaker 1: 30:45

Wow, that would be probably. Enjoy life every day, go for your dreams and help others grow.

Speaker 2: 30:54

Love it, love it, and I can totally see that in your story and your journey to date, and I think that is definitely going to carry forward as well. I'm looking forward to listening to your TED talk and to getting a copy of your book as well when it comes out. So thank you so much. Thank you for taking the time out and sharing your journey with us.

Speaker 1: 31:17

Thank you very much, sanila. It's been a great pleasure, and more to come, of course. Thank you very much, Thank you.

Speaker 2: 31:31

Thank you for staying with us for another episode of Unlimited Seating. Unlimited Seating is available on all major podcast directories and you can also watch us on our YouTube channel. Please do share your feedback. Alternatively, you can subscribe to us at wwwunlimitedseatingcom and get notified when new episodes are published.